of the Orthodox church and faith, I found this statement, An Orthodox Christian View of Non-Christian Religions, that makes me wonder why this particular sect feels any need at all to have martyrs for the faith, much less tout the notion that more martyrs have come from their ranks than all others combined. It is an official document of the The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, so I guess I can assume that it is the official teaching of all of Orthodoxy.
This view holds firmly to the centrality of Christ, a doctrine which is not negotiable, yet acknowledges that salvation can be found outside Christianity.
If salvation is to be found outside of Christ, why be thrown to the lions? Why not just say, hey, cool with me, dude, you’re the man, let me go? I’m confused, not exactly an extraordinary state of mind for the BigJolly.
Possessing reason and the will to act, all persons have the capability, to become “like” God.
But Fr. Joseph clearly states that man has lost the ability to reason. I’m confused.
The way of Orthodoxy is to converge on the golden mean, carefully avoiding extremes and the pitfalls that can lead to destruction.
I can only infer that the definition of “mean” in his statement is of a mathematical nature, Something having a position, quality, or condition midway between extremes; a medium. One of the best definitions I have used to convey the inappropriateness of using averages in manufacturing is that a person with one foot in ice water and one foot in boiling water will have an acceptable average temperature. Or as Jesus would say:
‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot! So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth! (Rev 3:15-16)
I remain confused towards the Orthodox faith.
John 14:6 Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 14:7 If you have known me, you will know my Father too. And from now on you do know him and have seen him.â€
I don’t believe I’ve ever said that Man has “lost the ability to reason.” I said that Man’s reason FELL in the Fall. In other words, reason cannot be, as your Buddha quote asserted, the mean toward truth.
God bless you in your struggle.
Thank you, Fr. Joseph. I’m not sure I understand your nuanced statement on reason. If reason is fallen, is it not lost? Or at best, substandard? Less than what was? Less than intended?
The point, I believe, stands – the quote attributes man’s reason and action to man becoming like God. If reason is anything less than originally intended by the Creator, how then does it allow us to draw nearer to Him? Or to become like Him?
However, I understand from your exit that it is my dilemma to face alone. God bless you in your struggle as well as you attempt to understand the Cross:
At least I know I’m not alone in my lack of understanding. Even if, as your professor pointed out:
Do not fear, I am but humble trailer park trash and not a candidate to be a seminarian. I wonder though, did your professor ever ask himself if the parishioners had any desire to become seminarians? Hmm.
Still here, Big Jolly. Not sure I understand the ribbing, though. Reason, though fallen — like all things fallen — is redeemed through Christ.
I’m not sure either, as I ask simple questions because of a simple mind. The quote, from the official church, which I assume is official doctrine or whatever, says that “possessing reason and the will to act, all persons have the capability, to become like God”.
Are you saying that all things have been redeemed through Christ? (well, yes, that’s what you said but is that what you meant?) I mean, “all things”? Without conscious choice? If so, then, yes, even a simple minded person like the Bigjolly could understand that. In itself, it wouldn’t make sense to me but that is inconsequential. But if not, then what are you saying?
Trust me on this one, nothing I have asked you or Fr. Stephen is either flippant or disrespectful. I’ll post later on a meeting that I had tonight and you will, perhaps, if you have ever lived in a trailer park or had simple faith, understand that I understand the need for Protestants to have a deeper, more substantial understanding of Christ than the 4 Spiritual Laws that you guys detest so much. (we’ll talk about the need for, um, others, to have a more action oriented faith later)